Team Meeting, Shasta Edition
Michael
Okay gang. With Viv and Mary-Lynn yet again Serendipitously bonding out of earshot, we need to decide how we're going to deal with:
a) the Comte's offer to un-create Andy and Viv and thus OZYMANDIAS, thereby bringing the first part of the plan to Change the World to fruition,
b) the knowledge of the precise location of the Way Into the Mountain, scried by Mitch and now marked on Charley's USGS map,
c) the fact that the Comte is incarnated down there along with the Old Man kulullû from the Ernest O. Lawrence lab at Berkeley, and
d) the tantalizing reference to a "control room" that Mitch and Archie are apparently forbidden by the Comte from visiting where apparently the Old Man (and Viv and Andy) can be un-created.
Bill
There's just so many questions we're gonna have, and it seems hard on Mitch to put it to him. I think Roger, with a lot of help, could eventually get down the chains of causality that lead from the Old Man being un-created to OZYMANDIAS too (and the attack on the St. Francis not happening so Viv not being there to help stop it doesn't destroy History A). But without that, I don't think Roger would understand enough to help make a decision on the plan to go forward with. Is there another of the club willing to try to help folks like Roger through to understanding?
Or is there a faith argument, a trust me person, that can short-cut it?
Maybe the above belonged in meta-discussion, 'cause that's kinda what I'm asking, to help get an OOC understanding of how to approach this IC.
Leonard
If this is a discussion the group is having in character, Jocasta will be her boring paranoid self and note again that (a) there is absolutely no reason to trust the Comte; (b) his suggestion is to conveniently fix a problem we have by removing two people, one of whom is our trusted friend, from existence, which, even if it's true, is not something we should do. She will also note that the strings of causality are forever tangled and you can't just surgically snip out one and still leave the whole tapestry intact, that if something seems too easy that's because it's usually not true, and that surely she's not the only one who's more than a little uncomfortable with this sudden implication that we are suddenly the chosen ones picked by mysterious cosmic powers to receive the power to rework all of history and human existence.
Jeff
Well, that's the root of the problem, isn't it? If the binary choice that St. Germain lays out were real, then the world would be just kind of silly.
Leonard
Right! So what are our options? If we think the Comte is as powerful as he says he is, we could just wax him and that either fixes a problem, if not the problem, or at the very least lets Mitch take his place (although Jo thinks that would be a bad thing overall). If he's not, if he's just trying to swindle us to do what he wants — Jocasta's bet — then we can just ignore him and, if we think the interior of Shasta is worth exploring on its own merits, do that anyway. (Same with ECP, honestly.) I personally think the message that should be reinforced here is that we can only trust ourselves and that the struggle we're in has no shortcuts, so we should distrust anyone who suggests there is. We make our own plans and disregard all of this flak served up by entities/people with agendas of their own.
Rob
Archie's with Jo on this one (it's not the same as letting Charley tentatively believe in angels) — I can't imagine we'd erase two of our only friends and allies from history, least of all on the Comte's say-so. But I don't think anybody in the group is actually making a case for that, so that discussion is probably moot. We have to send a team down into the mountain, right? I'm a little curious to test the Comte's prohibition and see what would stop Archie or Mitch from getting there. But what's more likely to work is sending, say, Roger & Jo down, loaded for bear, with Mitch using remote viewing or astral projection or whatever he can do to play along. I have OOC doubts we can kill the Comte but if you have the shot, Archie would say: take it. Same goes for the Old Man. Failing that, press the Comte for answers/specifics and keep the various cultists away from him. (Remember, Viv said one of the groups was going to find what they were looking for on the mountain this weekend.)
Mel
Do we know what the Comte is exactly and how his powers work? Before we possibly destroy him would it be safe for say Roger and Charley to meet him and learn more? (I’m often behind the eight ball so forgive me if this was covered)
Michael
Do we know what the Comte is exactly and how his powers work? Before we possibly destroy him would it be safe for say Roger and Charley to meet him and learn more? (I’m often behind the eight ball so forgive me if this was covered)
In Mitch's past encounters with him, the Comte has made hints that the Anunnaki made him somehow above the normal run of human. Of course, the same could be said for all of you as well. Here's what he said:
He also is hinting he's been around Shasta since the 1870s.
Leonard
I think part of the problem is that most of what we know is either through Mitch, who has surely told us everything he knows for sure already, or through the Comte himself, who isn't trustworthy. I wonder if any of us with Occultism or something might know something second-hand, or if maybe Roger can find out about him through the spirits, more first-hand?
Jeff
I feel a little bad about advocating the killing of somebody who keeps showing up seemingly unarmed to talk and who alleges they haven't engaged in any hostilities against us, but he's an active agent of the Enemy and his attempts to parley are laden with hidden agendas. It may even be the case that the dream-logic binary the count lays out is wholly on the up-and-up because the Enemy thinks that if they sacrifice a bishop they can gain access to one of our rooks.
Bill
So, if Le Comte is a human (or at least started as one), then there's the chance he could be turned. But it seems extra slim since he's an egomaniac obsessed with making history how he sees it. Doesn't seem like he'd be willing to change his tune until there wasn't any hope for it left. So that'd seem to push us towards screwing it up more. The Path of Uriel, which we seem to have to take as the prophesied plan, does seem to align with Le Comte's option, but it doesn't have to.
OK, I think if we've said that Archie and Jo have some kind of conversation clarifying the choice and its consequences, then I think that helps get Roger to some understanding. And there's no way he'd accept le Comte's plan. He can't believe that the direction "Heaven" is pointing towards means beloved people are erased and heroic sacrifices are undone (St. Francis): in his head, that's not the means God presents. This helps him start to separate Uriel's Path from le Comte's Plan in his head, and see that le Comte isn't on the side of the angels here, however Uriel implied he was needed. Being needed and being the plan maker are two different things. So, based on the means being used being too immoral to accept, Roger's baulking on le Comte's plan. That's not to say pretending we're going along with it or other trickery is out of the question, but actually committing to it, he will make clear, is out of the question. "Even if some better history is possible by these means, if we choose these means, what would we become? And if we become something worse, how could we trust ourselves to be the ones to make that better history — we'd no longer know what it means. No, there is another way."
"And if we agree that erasing the Old Man is wrong, then the next step is clear: we can't allow the Old Man to be erased by others le Comte might seduce. So we have to end the Old Man, end his story, so it can't be unraveled."
Leonard
Jocasta was originally hoping to sidestep the Comte altogether, but given that it's clear he's both fully integrated into the mountain and key to the current situation, it doesn't look like that will be possible. So yeah, how do we get done what we want to have done (and what is that, exactly?) while not letting him get what he wants? I still think the idea that Mitch's double is the Comte has potential, if we could neutralize the original and have Mitch stand in for him somehow, but I'm also still a little murky on how that all works. The idea of just getting rid of ECP and whatever other cultists are about is tempting — boy, is it! — but given that we know 'someone' is going to get what they want, the risk is there's some group of actors we don't know about yet who will just waltz into a victory. We need to make sure that someone is us, but we can only do that by defining what we want pretty precisely.
Bill
I think part of the problem is that most of what we know is either through Mitch, who has surely told us everything he knows for sure already, or through the Comte himself, who isn't trustworthy. I wonder if any of us with Occultism or something might know something second-hand, or if maybe Roger can find out about him through the spirits, more first-hand?
Just to noodle this idea out a little: of the three choices for Spiritual Guidance Roger can call on, I think Papa Legba already gave us everything he could and more. I think Agent 00 would just go looking for the Big Red button to blow up the villain's hidden base (a plan we already have). That leaves Kalfu... and I don't know, the Master of the Crossroads could just be too much of a major wild card. I love that loa, I do, but I'm not sure St.-Germain against the Devil, enlightenment Trickster vs. ancient Trickster, goes any way other than unexpectedly. Maybe that's good. Maybe Mike and I would have a ball playing it out. Do they already have a history? A past deal? Major beef? Can Kalfu see a path to St.-Germain's death — or no, he can't, despite that Power, because St.-Germain has hidden his death as hard as Koschei the Deathless? I mean, I imagine it, and as I do it sounds Legendary. But I'm not sure it works us towards a practical plan and choice of action. Something for the back pocket maybe, if faced with le Comte and needing a Huge Distraction or Deal. That said, Roger isn't the only shaman here. Archie might not have brought them, but with the Way Open on this mountain, I think he'd have access, and his guides are a little more practical, and I'd propose, closer to the Enemy or to Krane's world that's manifest here.
Michael
I assumed that given the tenor of the camping trip, Archie would have brought at least Hobo Stan.
Jeff
So, we should try to brainstorm our options maybe. Things we could be shooting for.
One - we could just ignore the Comte's manifestation entirely, treat it like "Mitch found his location and he responded by making a bunch of mouth noises"
Two - we could decide that Elizabeth Clare Prophet is too dangerous to leave alone and take steps to neutralize her either with bullets or with memes
Three - same as two but for Peter's guru and her group
Four - we finish our fun hike to the summit where we can meditate and take in the views
Also, question, has Mitch met any previously unknown Illuminated people or is the list of local Illuminati still just Mitch, Ol' Vera, and Peter Mount Shasta?
Mitch hasn't laid eyes on Pearl Dorris himself but if ECP is one of us that'd affect his thinking
Michael
The canonical list of Illuminated Mitch has encountered remains: Mitch Peter Nola Zeb Andrew There have been vague hints that Mitch's double, too, might be Illuminated—it would explain why Nola thought Mitch was the Master Jesus and Zeb thought he was the Commissioner upon first seeing him, plus I believe the Comte has also made suggestive "mouth noises" to this end as well—but other than that there's no clue as to who the other Illuminated might be. ECP is most definitely not Illuminated. She's an NLP user and a "cheval," for sure. But not one of the Illuminated.
Pearl Dorris, unknown.
Bill
We have Seven to find, right? If le Comte is the Seventh (Ray), I guess that means one more out there. Ugh, lot of folks on that list in the Comte's corner (currently).
Given the magnetic effects of the mountain, it feels like trying to neutralize every cult that comes by is an endless distraction. Neutralizing/delaying St.-Germain or the mountain chamber seems like a better use of effort. One critical question: if le Comte has his hands in so many cults, even one with someone Illuminated, why is it he's pursued Mitch (or us) as the one that needs to be the destroyer of the Old Man and its timeline? Seems like that points to Mitch (because of the double?) being the Key needed. In which case, the rest of the cults may not really matter, except as they push Mitch towards doing what St.-Germain wants.
Michael
The Comte is not, by Mitch's sight, Illuminated.
Bill
Oh, so maybe he's a catalyst, not the substance, in this whole Seven to Remake the World recipe. Would definitely explain why he's collecting Illuminated like Nola and Peter. But interesting that he'd be willing to allow one of the Seven to be retro-un-created. Does le Comte want to stop the Remaking? I wouldn't think so, given if he can get it to be to remade for his Masters, it's a game winning move. Suborning the Illuminated to his will seems like the long term plan of the whole Ascended Masters Under St.-Germain meme. Hmm. Plus, if what he said is true, and it's Andrew who's behind the chamber, would un-making Andrew rewrite the chamber? Maybe Andrew just called it down from a higher plane, Opened the Way, and once Open, it's Open. Hmmm.
Jeff
I don't think there's exactly seven (or six or eight) Illuminated people out there, I think there's surely more than that (Mike assigned them the status of "large group" on par with "the elderly" for Sense of Duty purposes, which isn't to say that they're 5% of the global population, like the elderly in 1973), and therefore that we can discount Zeb and Andrew as being safely out of play for this whole deal. Maybe Nola, too.
Or maybe I'm wrong, here, as Charley's dream featured Zeb and Nola and Andrew and Mitch and Peter, and nobody else, right?
Brant
(OOC I find it extremely hard to believe there are only seven Illuminated. Maybe we can't know that IC, which would make sense, but OOC I'd be shocked if there are only seven.)
Leonard
There's probably more than seven just on the mountain.
Michael
In the Theosophical/Ascended Master mythcycle there are/can be many Ascended Masters but only seven rays, seven chakras, seven vibrations they attune to and represent. Not that Uriel and Aurora and Helios are AMs, of course, but they're all attuned to the Sixth Ray. Remember how Elizabeth swapped the Master Jesus for Nada... maybe it's easier to picture that the Seven Rays are like the spots available in a game of musical chairs with seven seats. Whoever's in the seat when the music stops... is a Chohan. I'm cribbing from Unknown Armies here a bit but hey. Steal from the best, right?
In the Summit Lighthouse/Church Universal and Triumphant cosmology, the Master Jesus didn't vanish or lose his Ascended status. He's just not the Chohan of the Sixth Ray anymore. Of course this is all I AM arglebargle and in no way necessarily indicative of your universe's operating parameters.
Mel
So random thought. Viv and Andy were both hit with was it gamma rays in utero? But Andy is illuminated but Viv is not. Why is that?
Leonard
She probably didn't want to be unglamorous
God I'm so sorry for the depths of dorkiness in that response
Bill
I always liked that there were 36 Tzadikim; as a mathematician, it’s just such a nicer composite allowing for better divisions. Screw 7.
Maybe 36 illuminated were on the three boatloads (divisible by 3) of men that went with Arthur into Annwn, the other place/history… but none but seven returned. Talk about musical chairs.
Michael
It would be kind of cute if every other History A Illuminated had a counterpart in History B.
Leonard
I was actually thinking a while back that I've always conceptualized the History A/B counterpart situation kind of like walk-ins — there are ways (though maybe only Mitch among us knows how they work on any level) that you can drop your consciousness or soul into your History B doppelgänger's body, but only one or both of you are illuminated.
Maybe sometimes this happens and you can't get back! Which accounts for the existence of illuminated people in the first place.
Michael
whoa
Do we have a consensus on action for the rest of today? Do we want to do some (more) IC discussion? No rush on any of this. Remember, we hiked to a spot a little over 10,000 feet up on the mountain for Mitch's scrying of the Comte so now it's I'd say late afternoon, probably around 3:30, 4 pm on Saturday. We can make the summit by about noon tomorrow if that's still within the plans. Given Charley's Area Knowledge, her USGS maps, and Mitch's scrying, the team estimates that anyone reasonably physically fit looking to get into the hidden entrance to Inside The Mountain could make it there in 4 to 5 hours of hiking down. The entrance is at about the same level as our base camp at Panther Meadow, but along the east-southeast slope of the mountain.
Leonard
Jocasta is ready to go into the mountain if that's what's been decided.
Bill
Roger is ready to go into the mountain. Clarifying the objectives and engagement rules for the mountain reconnoiter-in-force would be helpful. And whether we're bringing/risking Charley in order to have someone who has a chance of figuring out any weird controls or Enemy tech.
Michael
(I do love that we're coming to a moment of Decision on Charley's exposure to danger as an agent and that Archie is here for it. It's a long-simmering uncertainty that seems to finally be boiling over.)
Leonard
I again might be missing some key detail here, but, if the machine is meant to un-create the illuminated, it seems like we should destroy it, not use it or even try to figure it out.
Brant
Well, we don’t know if it’s easy to destroy. Like we could try to blow it up but it might be made of Unexplodium or something. The only person on the team with any ability to parse that shit is Charley.
Leonard
True, lotta known unknowns in this one
Bill
Bringing down a mountain on things does work a lot of the time. Bring Charley, but also bring dynamite and hopefully some knowledge of where to put it.
The hours of hiking to the entrance still needs to be done. Based on approaching under pretext of obedience to le Comte's request, I don't think getting in will be an issue.
Rob
We may be planning too far ahead. The immediate question is just who hikes where. How about: Jo, Roger, Charley, AND Archie hike down to what Mitch says is the hidden entrance. We'll see when we get to the entrance if there's a velvet rope or something that keeps Archie out. Mitch goes to the summit, does the Cerebro thing looking for his double and/or other illuminated. Only question then is what Viv and Mary-Lynn do.
Michael
Hunker down/provide possible psychological triage? Accompany Mitch to the summit?
Bill
I think Viv might be useful on the top of the mountain. Understanding the flows of fate when the world is being spread out before you seems like a useful thing to have.
And Mary-Lynn, well, someone may need to be there to snap Mitch back to, or anchor him.
Or just have his back.
Still seems like having at a minimum two real agents in both places is the better bet. Archie should go with Mitch, if we're using spy/military tactics as a basis.
But that takes seeing Charley as an agent.
Jeff
I'm down with this splitting-up plan. Mitch, Archie, Mary-Lynn to the summit; Roger, Jo to the entrance. Viv and Charley are question marks, maybe Viv would be helpful with the action squad.
Rob
Should we consider swapping Archie & Roger? (i.e. Roger goes to the summit with Mitch, Archie goes to the entrance with Charley & Jo?) This means Roger doesn't get to see the Comte. But if we want combat-ready agents in both teams, we kind of have to split up Jo & Roger. It should depend on what Bill wants Roger to do OOC. I'm fine with Archie going either way.
Bill
I personally see it as needing Roger on the mountain-interior team. He brings an explosives option, it's another fighter for the most likely combat, and Roger always has a wildcard of skills to deal with unknown situations. Archie going to the entrance and staying back means we have less agents for anything going on inside. Or we have to reveal we're off le Comte's playbook earlier and bring him in anyway.
I also think it's more dramatic for Archie to be separated from Charley when she's going into her first truly risky agent spot. Spikes of emotion coming through their connection while Archie is forced to be distant: sweet, sweet drama.
Jeff
In theory Mitch is a combat-ready agent. He's not as good at it as Roger or Jo, but...
Brant
... he can light people on fire with his mind?
Bill
Oh, no question Mitch is a combat presence! But he kinda is the whole point of going to the top of the mountain, so seems like he can't be on the interior team. Plus it would possibly be really important for Mitch to draw the Eye of Sauron attention of le Comte up to the top at some point, so the interior team can get on with breaking his stuff.
I mean, le Comte can probably bi-locate; kinda a typical power of the ascended, but maybe not!
Rob
I also think it's more dramatic for Archie to be separated from Charley when she's going into her first truly risky agent spot. Spikes of emotion coming through their connection while Archie is forced to be distant: sweet, sweet drama.
Ah, you said the magic words: "sweet, sweet drama." OK, so: Team Uphill: Mitch, Archie, Mary-Lynn Team Downhill: Jo, Roger, Charley I'm not 100% sure how Archie rationalizes splitting up with Charley, but we're making this decision on the fly, halfway up the mountain. The GM can decide what Viv does, we've been at this long enough.
In terms of objectives and rules of engagement, I don't want to talk our way out of all uncertainty before the scene happens. I think Team Downhill's main objective is to explore the mountain, see if they can find this "control room" and what it is, figure out more about what the Comte is and what his game is, etc. etc. Beyond that, improvise as needed. But Archie does take Jo aside and says, "I know I can trust you and Roger to take good care of Charley, and keep her safe. Thank you for that. But... if you have an opportunity to eliminate a significant agent of the opposition... take the shot." So, you know, no pressure.
(And Archie's not worthless in combat, just nowhere near the pros. But I'm not expecting combat on top of the mountain. We did bring ikoters, right?)
Michael
(And Archie's not worthless in combat, just nowhere near the pros. But I'm not expecting combat on top of the mountain. We did bring ikoters, right?)
We got the zap guns, yes.
Genevieve comes over to the URIEL braintrust after they've had their second secret five-person confab of the weekend, both of which happened while Viv has been largely keeping Mary-Lynn busy. After Mitch's 40-minute meditation, it means that the party of seven has been up here at 10,000 feet for about an hour. "The air up here is thin. So are the boundaries between worlds. Can you feel it, Mitch? It's like there's a possibility of... leaving here somehow, at right angles to reality." Genevieve gives Jocasta a look and then looks down at her own hiking boots, still anchored securely to the face of Mount Shasta.
"Oddly, I've never felt so right and certain than I do at this moment. I feel like the cloud that's been hanging over this trip just suddenly up and broke apart just now, like early morning fog being dispersed by the rising sun." She smiles as she turns away from the five members of URIEL and looks to the west where the sun has dipped behind the mountain. "There's a lot I want to ask all of you about where we're going from here, of course, but in this moment I trust in you all implicitly. And I trust Mitch to keep us all safe, to guide us as the liminal figure he is, the man who sees and walks between worlds. And I trust Mary-Lynn," and with this she brings Mary-Lynn over to the circle, to include her in this impromptu blessing of the circle, "to be the part of this circle that helps to keep us all together."
Mary-Lynn says, "Genevieve was tellin' me about the ritual role of the holy witness, of the companion whose presence keeps the shaman tied to this Earth and prevents them from... hah, floatin' away on the cosmic breeze. It's not like you're being their drag, being the boring old anchor; it's more like you're their necessary counterbalance, the yin to their yang that keeps the world spinnin', their trip buddy, their... reason for doing all this." Mary-Lynn looks at Mitch with real unashamed love and affection in her eyes. "Hon, this has been a very strange weekend full of scary weird people and the hairs on the back of my neck are standin' up like crazy right now. But there is no one I would rather be here with than you." She stands on tip-toe to put her arms around Mitch's neck and give him a peck at the corner of his mouth. "I don't know what y'all have planned but I will help however I can. Like Viv said, this feels scary but important and I have one of my weird little psychic instincts—like I did the other night with the cards, Mitch!—that I know y'all are gonna do the right thing and make the right decisions."
Leonard
"I can feel it," Jocasta says with a strange vulnerability and a bit of...sadness? "It's different here. Like the world looks when you take off in an airplane. Like it's receding." She glances over at the van full of gear, eager to begin her work, but hesitating somehow. "We're all going to have to do things we haven't done before. To experience for ourselves what we only know about second-hand. But we watch each other, always. Make sure there's always another step ahead to take."